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The U.S. Supreme Court ruled Friday that cities can enforce bans on the unhoused population sleeping outside.
But homeless advocates say punishing people who need a place to sleep would criminalize homelessness – which grew nationally by 12 percent last year.
For the last two months, the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office has been tracking where the unhoused are sleeping.
WMNF’s Chris Young spoke with Tampa Bay Times reporter Justin Garcia about a list he received with homeless people’s names and the agencies tracking them.
Young: Can you just tell me a little bit about your article and the background behind the new state law that criminalizes sleeping outside in public spaces?
Garcia: Yeah. So the law was signed, earlier this year by Governor Ron DeSantis, and it will take effect on October 1st and starting on October 1st, it will become illegal to sleep outside. And, you can be arrested if you’re sleeping outside. under that law. And then on January 1st, it’ll be possible for lawsuits to be opened if people are sleeping outside in certain jurisdictions. So, now law enforcement agencies are kind of grappling with what to do ahead of the law taking effect.
Young: In Pinellas County, law enforcement agencies are compiling a list of locations where people sleep outdoors.How did you uncover this information and what are the agency’s intentions with this list?
Garcia: Yeah, well, I received the list from a confidential source, actually, so I can’t give that away. But, once I had the list, it was titled. It was named after the law that governor Ron DeSantis signed. And, the list was essentially three pages and showed all these different locations around Pinellas County where they were monitoring where people are sleeping outside and how many people are there. And then I saw that it wasn’t just, Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office, it was Gulfport Police Department, Pinellas Park Police Department, and Clearwater Police Department. Others were also involved. But, Saint Petersburg Police Department chose not to get involved with the project. And then I found that none of the other sheriff’s offices were getting involved either.
Young: So what makes Pinellas County unique? That they were the ones that decided to do this? And what were some of the hesitancy in the other sheriff’s departments?
Garcia: Well, I think, Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office was saying essentially they want to track where these people are. So that way they can approach them with social workers and deputies, and educate them and give them options is what they said in a statement to me when I asked for more details about how they’re educating people, when and how they’re approaching them and what options they’re giving them, they said, we’re not going to give any further comment. And then, when I reached out to other local sheriff’s agencies, Pasco County Sheriff’s Office actually said, you know, homelessness is not a crime and that they only respond to criminal issues. Hillsborough Sheriff’s Office said they did not have such a list. and Polk County Sheriff’s Office also said they did not have a list. they didn’t say exactly why they didn’t have the lists. but, it seems like they weren’t taking the same action ahead of time that Pinellas County Sheriff’s offices.
Young: You mentioned that they declined to comment on how they’re educating these individuals about the upcoming law. Why do you think there is reluctance there?
Garcia: I can’t speculate too much. But in my experience of working with law enforcement agencies, I always I think the public is always looking for transparency. Right. If you if you are educating, homeless people or people without a place to live, on on what to do, those details kind of help the public be more aware of what’s going on out there. And so, it definitely is one of those things where you get when you get a no comment, when you ask a question, it just only raises more questions.
Young: You talked to Saint Petersburg pastor Andy Oliver, and he expressed concerns about crackdowns on homeless individuals. Could you elaborate on his perspective and the implications for those that may be experiencing homelessness?
Garcia: Yeah. so the worry is that getting this jump start before the live in takes effect on October 1st, and Oliver’s opinion showed an eagerness to kind of get this jump start and criminalize people sleeping outside. And he thinks that the list is being made to have this database of where people are sleeping outside and then be able to crack down on them as soon as the law takes effect. That was his perspective. and he’s worried that what didn’t make it into the story is that he’s worried that if you do that to people, it only makes their conditions worse. Whereas if people have places where they can lay their heads and kind of go back to, then there will be more opportunity for them to get out of homelessness, to get a stable job, to get temporary housing and then permanent housing.
Young: And that’s another thing that other advocates talked about too, is the importance of those resources in Pinellas County in shifting to those resources. What are the advocacy groups in these shelters doing to prepare for the law’s implementation? Did you talk to them, and how are they helping the homeless individuals navigate?
Garcia: Yeah. So, unfortunately, there are limited resources, right?some shelters are expanding the space that they have, making more room for beds. there are, new temporary housing and permanent housing projects in Pinellas that are making room for, more people to get into permanent housing. However, even with those those moves ahead of this law, there are still limited resources. And the county is kind of strapped for having enough places for people to go once the law takes effect.And on top of that, one of the advocates told me that under this law, you know, it’s it’s determined that you, as a jurisdiction have to go and create a camp for the people to go to. And that camp has to be approved by the Department of Children and Families. however, there are other rules where the camps can’t be too close to businesses or residential areas. And so one advocate told me that that makes it really difficult to build any kind of encampment. In Pinellas, they don’t think they have enough room right now that might be reconsidered in the coming days, but that’s where they’re at right now, is they are limited on resources, but they’re trying to get creative and find other ways like mobile shelters and stuff like that, to give people, shelter when the law takes effect.
Young: And it seems like homelessness obviously has always been an issue. But this law is kind of highlighting that. So have you seen any pros possibly like positive outcomes or support for homeless initiatives come from this?
Garcia: Yeah. So, what what advocate told me is that it is making them come back to the table and say, wow, we have this timeline now. We have until October 1st, and people can start getting arrested for sleeping outside. So what do we do now? You know what? What? We’re going to put everything on the drawing board and try to figure out what we can do to get people into shelter. And I think that’s one positive aspect that this advocate communicated to me is that they’re going into high gear to say, hey, we really have to figure this out before this law takes effect.
Young: So what are some of the next steps as far as you see and research as far as local governments, law enforcement and advocacy groups as the October deadline approaches? So the October deadline is coming actually, today, the Supreme Court ruled on a law out of, Oregon, that, criminalizes, camping outside. And the Supreme Court decided, okay, you can go ahead and criminalize camping and sleeping outside. that that ruling just came down today. And in response, I’ve been getting some advocates reaching out to me, saying there are still loopholes and gaps in that law that that make a little difference for the state law and that they want to get involved and look at all their legal options to see how they could possibly challenge the law. I’m not sure if that’s going to come to fruition. That’s just kind of the response I’m getting initially is that with the Supreme Court ruling, they would still want to look closer at this state law and all of their options before it goes into effect. But then once it goes into effect, if it does, on October 1st, they want to be mobilized and ready to help out the homeless community as much as possible.
Young: Lastly, is there anything else you like to add that you feel we didn’t cover?
Garcia: No. I think it is something to just keep an eye on, though, because, what this story did show is that there is kind of a disparity and a difference in how different agencies are responding to this upcoming, law in October, and that’s something to keep an eye on, I think, for all of the media and for concerned citizens as well.
A state law will go into effect in October that bans people from sleeping in public places.
The Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office declined a request for an interview. But did give a statement:
“HB1365 takes effect on October 1, 2024, and we are coordinating with all partners to ensure that we are compliant throughout Pinellas County. Part of our effort to ensure compliance by the law’s effective date is to ensure that the homeless population is educated and provided with options to impermissible sleeping or camping in public spaces. We are using social workers and other personnel in this effort. In order to have the outreach to the affected homeless population we need to know where they are and that is what the list you referred to has helped accomplish. Our goal is compliance without any enforcement being required, and we believe that can be accomplished by the law’s effective date. All of Pinellas County will be compliant with HB1365 by October 1, 2024. We are unavailable for an interview.”
